20230319_wesun_politics

[00:00.42] We've been hearing about legal troubles surrounding former President Donald Trump for years now.

[00:04.93] He's the subject of several civil and criminal investigations on state and federal levels.

[00:11.05] And on Saturday, he said he's anticipating getting arrested this week.

[00:16.36] We have NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson with us now.

[00:20.61] Good morning, Mara.

[00:21.40] Good morning, Ayesha.

[00:22.46] OK. So yesterday, Trump said he's going to be arrested on Tuesday.

[00:27.24] He blamed some, quote, "illegal leaks." But then his attorney kind of seemed to walk it back a bit, saying Trump was basically just going on - based off of media reports.

[00:38.66] Is this a publicity stunt? What's going on here?

[00:41.85] Sure, it's definitely a publicity stunt.

[00:44.52] Donald Trump said he was going to be arrested Tuesday.

[00:46.91] Then his campaign said they have not been notified that he's going to be arrested Tuesday.

[00:51.15] His lawyer also said, quote, "we will follow the normal procedures," suggesting that he would just turn himself in if he was about to be indicted.

[00:59.12] But Trump's politics are all about grievance.

[01:02.84] Here he is speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference earlier this month.

[01:07.62] From the beginning, we have been attacked by a sick and sinister opposition - the radical left, communists, the bureaucrats, the fake news media, the big money, special interests, the corrupt Democrat prosecutors.

[01:22.75] Oh, they're after me for so many things.

[01:25.41] So that's the heart of his politics, portraying himself as being politically persecuted.

[01:29.67] He's the victim, and a lot of his supporters believe that he is.

[01:33.39] Well, he's calling on his supporters to protest what is, at this point, his hypothetical arrest, which could make for a volatile situation, right?

[01:42.95] That's right. But he's said this kind of thing before.

[01:45.35] He's repeatedly called on his supporters to fight, sometimes to be violent, asking them to, quote, "beat the crap" out of someone protesting at his rallies.

[01:53.31] Before January 6, he said, be there - will be wild.

[01:56.50] On January 6, he told them to go to the Capitol and, quote, "fight like hell." So he often calls on his supporters to do this.

[02:04.20] In September, he gave an interview to "The Hugh Hewitt Show," and he was talking about the possibility of getting indicted over possessing classified documents.

[02:11.63] Here's what he said then.

[02:12.96] If it happened, I think you'd have problems in this country, the likes of which perhaps we've never seen before.

[02:20.39] I don't think the people of the United States would stand for it.

[02:22.80] So he went on to say his supporters wouldn't sit still and accept how he's being treated.

[02:27.58] He clearly wants his supporters to be out in the streets.

[02:31.82] As we mentioned earlier, there's been a flurry of headlines over the years over the various investigations into Trump, his family, his businesses.

[02:38.46] So remind us briefly about the investigation that he says will land him in jail or at least arrested?

[02:45.11] Well, this particular investigation is in New York.

[02:47.76] It's around a payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels and whether that payment is a campaign finance violation.

[02:54.40] The question is, was the payment made to avoid the story about his affair with Stormy Daniels coming out before the election?

[03:02.10] And we should clarify that Trump does deny having an affair with Stormy Daniels.

[03:06.61] Just want to make that clear.

[03:07.95] Yes, he does deny having an affair with Stormy Daniels.

[03:09.54] There are other investigations, as you mentioned, into Trump's handling of classified documents, into his efforts to stop - overturn the 2020 elections.

[03:17.78] But this one is about campaign finance law.

[03:20.43] If he does get arrested, how would that affect his presidential campaign? I mean, he's running for president.

[03:26.54] Would the Republican establishment stand behind him?

[03:29.46] Well, he - if he was arrested, he would be the first sitting or former president ever to face criminal charges.

[03:35.84] But I think it would probably just increase the split between Trump's base, which is much of the Republican Party base, and the Republican establishment.

[03:43.80] His own supporters think it might help him because he would be a martyr. His supporters would become even more energized.

[03:50.98] On the other hand, it could increase the desire of many of his supporters to move on from him.

[03:56.55] He's damaged goods, even if they feel he is being unfairly treated.

[04:00.02] And it also raises the other question, which is, what would Trump do if he doesn't get the nomination?

[04:05.85] Would he decide to run as a third party?

[04:07.72] He certainly seems to be in a kind of burn-it-all-down mood.

[04:10.90] He's angry with the establishment for moving away from him.

[04:13.82] He actually issued a press release over the weekend listing the different reactions of other 2024 presidential hopefuls and whether they criticized the Manhattan DA.

[04:25.24] Pointedly, Ron DeSantis, he said, said nothing.

[04:28.96] That's NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson.

[04:32.15] Thank you so much.

[04:32.95] Thank you.